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10 message(s)
started Monday December 24, 2007
last updated 10 years ago
 
zebraReply to this topicQuote this message
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Posted Monday December 24, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29780)
so, as you know i am a mac guy now. but i was wondering what u guys think of the windows vista? it looks pretty and fun. but how are you guys faring with it with audio apps and iv heard its not a very good os. so, im just asking. looks pretty slick but also seems like they may be buried and never coming out in the os and just trying to keep up with the prettiness and slickness of mac os x. whats ur input guys?
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Posted Tuesday December 25, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29781)
yeah i havent mess with vistas but I read all kinds of pros and cons.theres someting I read about osx..something about kernal panic?? is that true? can lose all your data?
I've overreached myself again....
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Posted Tuesday December 25, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29782)
It's a decent OS. The user interface enhancements make it more usable. It's a lot less "hands on" than XP, meaning you don't have to change every little detail to make it run. You can still customize it to act just like XP. All the audio apps I've tried on it work fine. It seems fairly secure.
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Posted Tuesday December 25, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29783)
At first glance, my first opinion was vista was trying to mimic osx. When I first tried vista it was a basic version and I hated it. Couldn't find where things are. I'm using the premium version now and got the hang of these.

As far as music apps go, I rather have my xp back. The only reason is that m-audio hasn't updated their drivers and my mixer is still connected to my old pc. FL Studio works fine on it as well as my NI plugins.

Overall I think vista is rather okay for the time-being. Give some time and I think everything will be just fine and dandy.
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Posted Thursday December 27, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29792)
I'm just gonna go out there and say no - it's a pretty terrible "OS", it still has massive audio latency issues, many DAWs still don't work right with it, and I've seen it crash to bluescreen during install and because of a mouse driver.

As to the mimicing OSX thing - well, it is. Now there's a windows live search box at the top of every window, though it doesn't index your files right so it does not work like the finder does in OSX, which is to say that the finder actually works and increases your workflow. The view multiple windows thing is a direct rip of the Expose feature in OSX, as is the whole "shinier, prettier" interface.

I understand that I'm being a bit harsh here, but I can't for the life of me understand using Vista for most anything right now. From a performance standpoint, it's a total system hog = it barely performs on a 2.4ghz P4 machine with a gig of RAM. I've seen it fight with every audio app I've dropped onto it save for Sonar and Project 5, and it refuses to work with most all sound cards.

Again this is in my experience, so take it with a grain of salt, but sorry - I wouldn't touch that crap until about two years after it's been out.
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Posted Thursday December 27, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29793)
PS Zeebs - you seen Panther yet? If you want a bomb OS, check it out. The Stacks function is super awesome for increasing workflow, spaces is badass, and it's memory allocation is much more efficient.

Sorry, yeah, I sound like a mac fanboy - I am. I still love windows for many, many reasons, but if I need to get some serious work and editing done, I'm on my mac, because, as Keary once put it, "You don't have to think about it being a computer, you just work".

Again, my opinion ...
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efesarReply to this topicQuote this message
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Posted Thursday December 27, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29794)
My workflow is much improved in Vista compared to XP. I actually don't like using XP any more. The search feature works fine. Files are indexed just fine, unless you store your files in system areas or non-indexed areas (for instance, in Program Files, Windows, AppData, etc). I especially like the new start menu. I don't have to "organize" it anymore, because I just type the name of the program I want. I don't even use it like a menu anymore. That is, of course, for programs I don't use often. The most common 16 programs I use are always on the start menu. I think it's a massive improvement. Also, the control panel is wonderful. I don't ever hunt and peck for icons anymore. I just type "audio" in the search box and voila! I have my audio manager.

There are some driver issues. It is a new OS with a new driver stack -- and I agree, never try out a new OS until SP1. I just got my Vista Home Premium laptop about 2 months ago, so I haven't experienced the worst of it. I did have a couple of driver problems (mostly with hibernation). However, all of my drivers have been updated, and I've applied the RC SP1, and it's quite a competent OS.

I can't speak directly to latency issues for the sound card because I have a laptop and my sound is integrated. I know that in Sonar 7 I was able to get my latency down to about 140ms. But I'm not using low-latency drivers (I have an integrated RealTek and they don't make low-latency drivers). I'd have to say that's not bad for a crappy integrated sound card. But I don't use high-end hardware anymore, so it's not my area of expertise.

There are a couple of other Vista enhancements that make XP look archaic. First, the wireless is much improved. I use Bluetooth constantly (my phone and BT headphones), and I use G wireless. Connecting to networks is 100% easier compared to XP. Second, Explorer windows rock. Explorer is actually a useful file shell now. It's amazing that it took Microsoft 20 years to properly execute a file shell. It's the right mix of ease of use and power-user functionality.

Generally, I will sum up what I like about Vista: Everything is "easy" to use, and work flow is amazingly improved. However, if you need "power user" functionality, it's still there. In other words, it's easy yet not crippled. The easy functionaly covers 95% of what I want to do, and that makes my life 100% better. But when I need to do something that requires the skill of a Linux Zen Master, I'm not crippled by the interface enhancements. Honestly, I think Microsoft finally got it right in this department. I also really like the fine granularity of the power saving options. There are about 500 more options than XP, if you go into the Advanced section.

Now, what I don't like: Cancel or Accept? Cancel or Accept? Cancel or Accept? Yes, I'm glad it's a "secure" OS, but dammit, that gets really fucking annoying after a while. Also, I don't like the occasional driver issues that give me a blue-screen of death. I've never had one happen *while* I am working, so that's good. But like I said, 99% of my blue-screens are related to the Hibernation issue, and a few to my video card driver. I've updated everything, and I haven't had one in a few days, so that's good. I hope they get *all* the weird bugs worked out, so it's as stable as XP (meaning, XP at its best, not at its worst).

Windows may be a resource hog, but next-generation OS is. That's normal. When Win3.1 came out, we needed a Megabyte (yes, MEGABYTE) of RAM. When Win95 came out, it was more like 16. Win98 Really liked about 64. Win2000 choked on 64, but ran fine on 128. Windows XP didn't like anything less than 256. And now Vista really needs around 1024. I bought this laptop new with 2 Gigs of RAM, so I've never once experienced a resource issue with memory unless I was doing something that required memory (Photoshop or AutoPano). So I'll say the same thing I always say: get as much RAM as possible. A 1GB stick of DDR2 runs less than $35 on NewEgg. If you're having resource issues, get more RAM.

Finally, there are things *still* crappy about Windows that have always been crappy. Rebooting for drivers, rebooting for installs! AAAAAAAAAAARGH! WHY!? I hate that shit. Supposedly Vista SP1 is going to fix this problem, but we'll see.

I don't love Vista, but it's definitely getting better. Like I said, I personally prefer it to XP. It needs some work, but SP1 is about to go gold, and I think that 99% of the initial bugs have been worked out. Hey, don't knock it! I've heard horror stories about Leopard!

I like OSX, but I don't like paying double for everything. Seriously, that's my only gripe with Mac Hardware. It's expensive. I got a top-of-the-line desktop replacement PC for $1300 (I swapped out a 5400 RPM hard drive for the top-of-the-line 7200RPM hard drive for $200, bringing the grand total to $1500). The equivalent Mac Book Pro is about $2500. Plus, there are a couple of options on my PC which the Mac didn't come with, for instance a HD DVR card, and bluetooth, and a double-capacity battery (150MWH), which would probably bring the Mac up another $200 total.

Oh, and one more thing I don't like about Mac: Software. There is and has always been many more options on PC. I'm not just talking about commercial apps, but that's somewhat the case. I'm talking about commercial applications, "backup copies" of applications, freeware, shareware and utilities. The Mac software realm *is* getting better, but it's still an order of magnitude smaller than the PC software world.

The Mac has several advantages. I'm not an expert, so I can't say what all of them are. But the Mac Laptops have magnetic power couplers and a backlit keyboards. That's freaking AWESOME. I still hate the mouse, especially on laptops, without the scroll and without the second button. Boo! Yes, fine, external mouse, yes yes, fine. But I don't use external mice, so it's just a hindrance to OPTION-click everything.

Okay, so, does this help any? I'm trying to be objective here. Really, I guess it depends on a couple of priorities: If you want something pretty, it doesn't matter, they're both pretty. They're both functional, and have good work flow. They both run the same hardware. What's different? 1) Price 2) software/hardware latency/driver issues 3) software selection.

Oh. There's one other HUGE advantage Macs have. BootCamp and Dual boot. I don't know about running Vista in dual boot, but XP runs great. What happened to Boot Camp? I heard it's integrated into Leopard now, but I'm not sure about the details. What happened to Boot Camp anyway? I heard they turned it off?

Ok, end transmission. Hope it helps a little.
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Posted Friday December 28, 2007 - 10 years ago (#29796)
Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a good OS - We all remember what windows 95 was like, and then 98, and then 2000 came out, and many of us are still doing servers with 2000 server on it! XP finally got it right about 7 years later, but even then it wasn't really useful until SP2.

I do like some of the little things in Vista. I think that they did think a little more about workflow, which to me is the most important thing now. It obviously has some good enhancements, and it's getting closer to being much more powerful.

The thing I cannot stand in it is all the goddamn security alerts. You can turn many of them off, but there's still annoying popups about things that are the most everyday of computer usage, and that is just silly.

As to audio, I've tested a lot on it (that's my job after all) and unfortunately I've seen a lot of issues there - Sonar is definitely one of the only most useful audio apps on Vista. Cubase 4 didn't have official Vista support until about 1 month ago - and even at that it's buggy.

I guess what my issue with Windows in general now, when it comes to getting creative things done (music and film), is that if I have to spend too much time doing analytical bullshit, which I often do with much of Windows (unless it's my 4 year old install of XP), I just lose my entire train of thought and get nothing done.

As to bootcamp, it's still around, it's fully integrated into Leopard. I've done installs on macbooks using leopard and installing Windows, it literally installed faster than I've ever installed on a PC. Add to that that now bootcamp gives you all the drivers you need for windows to use all yoru mac hardware correctly (sound, isight camera, even the function buttons on your mac keyboard), and you'll find that they've done a hell of a lot to support putting Windows on your mac.

When I next upgrade my home machine (which will probably have to be soon), I will be buying a Mac desktop and installing windows on it. Parallels is also an amazing program - running windows from inside a shell window and being able to do everything you need from right within OSX with Windows is badass.

I do also agree on the cost of mac hardware - it's pretty stupid - but the one thing I can tell you is that it works, which I'm a fan of
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Posted Tuesday January 1, 2008 - 10 years ago (#29807)
. . . who wants to record on my reel to reel? (gulp)
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botkillerReply to this topicQuote this message
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Posted Friday January 4, 2008 - 10 years ago (#29831)
I have a reel to reel, and still record on it
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