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19 message(s)
started Tuesday January 22, 2002
last updated 18 years ago
 
Cheshire Reply to this topic Quote this message
Cheshire profile
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Posted Tuesday January 22, 2002 - 21 years ago (#1278)
In this day and age of Stereo, Surround, and Five Point sound, this post may rival that of pissing into a dancing toaster oven. (pointless yet inspiring)

I always recorded, engineered, and mastered in stereo till one fatefull evening a lad brought a fine piece of Electro-Grindcore to the table, emploring me to assist with a vocal mastering. I said "Hell yeah!" and we set up the needed equiptment.

When bouncing the song to my hard drive, I automaticly set it up for stereo (an asumption on my part)and began to record. I noticed that the R & L channels were identical on the screen. I asked about this and he returned that he always masters his final mixes to Mono then assigns them to left and right channels. I had to hear it, or I would of not believed it. The sound was full and defined as if it were stereo from the start. When presented with the original tracks from his 8 track, I played with the pan knobs untill I felt I had an impressive stereo sound. He said "yeah,.. that sounds good but watch this...", and played my mix of the song first in the left then in the right speaker by unattaching the wires to the speakers one at a time. He did the same once again, only with HIS mix this time, going from one speaker to the other.

I could see his point. I had only seen this practice one other time by an Engineer at KUNM. Yet he brough in a 4" speaker that he routed a stereo channel to so as he was recording, mixing, or mastering, he could reference his mix through the speaker.

Even though I will still take advantage of tricking with the stereo field with all recordings I touch, I will now also refer to a mono source to put a professional perspective to my mixes. It's just good practice I can vouch for.

^^.v.^^
"One who does not compose according to feelings, falsifies his work and his song." - Guillaume de Machaut
efesar Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Tuesday January 22, 2002 - 21 years ago (#1285)
Let me understand ... you're saying that this should be used for a subjective listening mix, not a mixdown to "tape", right?

An engineer's tool -- not in a listener's CD collection? I see mechanics of doing this, but I don't understand the benefit.

I try to record vocals mono most of the time, or rather a split LR mono channel. In fact that's really the only way to do it because mics are invariably mono animals.
band: efesar "underwater, darkness is as bright as daylights comes."
UBE Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Tuesday January 22, 2002 - 21 years ago (#1286)
I can see using that a a reference for seperation of sounds, but for a final mix no. When you include EFX that changes everything. Also if you do L/R seperation to add depth to your sounds you would not get an accurate representation of what the sound is going to be. I think that a cheap pair of speakers like car speakers work best for just seperation of sounds, but my hopes are my music will be played louder, in stereo, or on headphones. Therefore that's how I mix to get a true picture of the end result.
Cheshire Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Sunday January 27, 2002 - 21 years ago (#1325)
That's correct, just a matsering tool, not a final mixdown. (unless that's what you perfer) I apologizing for not clearifying specifics with the original post, but I hope this may help in understanding where I am comming from. We had gone back and forth about stereo vs. mono before me and laddie even recorded the vox that night. So I figgured that if I took the extra 30 min to master down a mono mix of my final (or nearly final) piece, and compare it to my stereo mix, I may force my ears to hear something I had not noticed in stereo. My piece "At Last" was engineered in this manner. In mono, I noticed that the bass wass killing the sound, so, in the stereo mix, I pulled back a little. Even though I'm still not entirely happy with my lower ends in that piece, it plays much cleaner in my factory-issued truck stereo. That made me happy. So I have now added in this extra step in hopes of finding it's subtle strengths as an engineering tool. As for vox... unless i'm trying to be a mad scientist, I do what efesar does. Can't wait to get me a home studio. ;p

^^.v.^^
"One who does not compose according to feelings, falsifies his work and his song." - Guillaume de Machaut
Dr. Nyquist Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Friday February 7, 2003 - 20 years ago (#5282)
Okay, now I understand what the other post was about. Two things i can add here:

1) phase cancellation. cheshire - if your bass was sounding weak in the stereo field and FULL in the mono signal it is very possible that you have some phase cancelling going on, especially if you're bass timbre is electronic (i.e. waldorf xt synth bass, Moog, Wirlitzer, etc.) I always record my bass in mono and keep it dead center since bass is omni present. Unless I'm recording Stu Hamm on a 6 sting fretless... thats different.

2) Mono mix down is very popular with dance tracks. I don't know the material you were working with, but when producing tracks for the dancefloor, I keep pretty much everything at unity gain (so that parts aren't lost on different sound systems) and then I master for the best "mono" sound since most club P.A.'s are mono.

This stuff is good. Rock on Ches, ef, and ube!
=======((>mission:control<))========
low-brow-know-how Production
SoundDesign/(re)Mixing/Mastering
=================================
Cheshire Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Saturday February 8, 2003 - 20 years ago (#5307)
THat's the same rule I learned from Jeremy. Bass dead center. So I'm gonna throw a strong "yessir" your way regaurdung that, and I havd noticed that 'club focused' tracks that are put out there are mono heavy, but I want to say that tracsk that I intend for club play follow the following rules:

*LFOs & bass heavy elements are dead center
*Extreem highs (taps and hats) are given 'pan' priority
*Mids are no further than 5-deg from center
*harmonies are equally panned for a 'plussed' center effect (wave cancelation, as you know, enforces that effect)
*Effects are panned hard and brought to center

These rules, in my inexperienced opinion, create a track that, to the dancer/listener is full bodied for the dance floor/expierence.

Thanks for pointing that out though cause It made me take a second look at my new track.

Kudos!

^^.v.^^
"One who does not compose according to feelings, falsifies his work and his song." - Guillaume de Machaut
v0sh Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Saturday February 8, 2003 - 20 years ago (#5318)
new track?
-stop the boat.
Dr. Nyquist Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Saturday February 8, 2003 - 20 years ago (#5324)
Cool. "T-Racks" is the shit for mastering. just running a file through it will make it sound rich and full before doing any processing. one can prolly find a krack out there...
=======((>mission:control<))========
low-brow-know-how Production
SoundDesign/(re)Mixing/Mastering
=================================
Cheshire Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Sunday February 9, 2003 - 20 years ago (#5335)
Do you know of any "Exciters" out there for the home engineer? I'm not familiar with the "T-Mod" you speak of. I still mix with Tupperware™ and wooden spoons.
"One who does not compose according to feelings, falsifies his work and his song." - Guillaume de Machaut
Dr. Nyquist Reply to this topic Quote this message
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Posted Monday February 10, 2003 - 20 years ago (#5348)
I got an aural exciter... her name is Lisa. I tried to box her up to take with me to NM, but she refused. damn. she's all analog on my log, baby. word.
=======((>mission:control<))========
low-brow-know-how Production
SoundDesign/(re)Mixing/Mastering
=================================

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This topic was added to our database on January 22, 2002, and the last message was updated 18 years ago. There are messages in this topic and it has been viewed 2681 time(s).

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